After seeing the four new classes stacking up with the originals, there are some balance issues left to address. Before you reply that I'm  a fanboi of "class a" or what have you, please know that I've played all 10 classes now to level 55+, except for the ranger (haven't gotten to it yet).

No, this isn't a call to nerf striker although they are standing on top of the pile in terms of sheer 1v1 potential at the moment. They have an incredibly versatile tool kit that includes CC, independent healing, massive 1v1 damage output, and mobility that makes them extremely difficult to deal with. The only way I've been able to handle a striker in 1v1 has been through unmitigated CC.

The Lahn has okay CC, no form of preservation worth speaking of, and the damage is severely lacking. However they are one of the more mobile classes and defend themselves from being targetted just through sheer annoyance factor. I believe they need far more damage output to counteract the long cooldowns and allow them to be on par with the other classes.

The Dark Knight is a complete mess. The kreigs animation time is completely unacceptable. The sustain requires the DK to stand still and open to whatever comes their way. The magic based attacks are solid damage and can cause a win from less skilled opponents, but this is the only thing going for them. Strafe mobility is great, but never a reason to click my DK on the character select screen when the node wars start.

The Musa is in a good place. Mobility is excellent, and attacks come fast and intuitive. The damage is high enough to feel respectable. Potion use becomes necessary, but the rest of the tool kit is there. CC through Gale is a nice option as well but the cooldown may need pulled back a little. Musa damage would be a good template to use when reassessing the striker.

As for the original six:
Wizard and witch are very good and inline with where I believe they were intended. Kings of the grind cant be kings of the 1v1, but they still have enough "jack of all trades" potential to give opponents fits, and make them very good in 2v1 or war settings.

Sorceress is excellent and has quite the bag of tricks. Her new damage numbers are solid, and the complexity of her playstyle was adapted well to the console controller I feel. She has good CC, midrange capabilities, solid movement, and decent defenses. DK defense may need brought closer to the sorceress numbers IMO.

Berserker HP is solid, buying them time to make a fight annoying. The grapple is very effective and fits the xbox well. Sustain is interruptable as it should be, and the damage numbers are lacking since the balance changes on 4/3. While the 1v1s last long enough to make them undesirable targets (like the lahn), the damage output doesn't make them "scary" like I feel a Berserker should be. Right now, I get butterflies from Strikers and Musas in the rear view mirror. I've never felt anxious about fighting a berserker and this just seems wrong.

Warriors balance changes were perfect. High defense, decent CC, decent mobility, decent damage and high HPs. These are like Berserkers with more defense thus turning that long fight into more of a "kill him quick as you can" scenerio. If you've ever played summoners war, this is like the old style Camilla. 1v1 requires you to burst them, node wars require that you kill everyone else and then attrition them down. Warrior = attrition. Feels good man.

What are your opinions on the class balancing? Am I completely wrong about your favorite class? Lets discuss instead of turning this into another "nerf striker" thread that doesn't help the developers much at all.

2 hours ago, Hedonist_Jester said:

After seeing the four new classes stacking up with the originals, there are some balance issues left to address. Before you reply that I'm  a fanboi of "class a" or what have you, please know that I've played all 10 classes now to level 55+, except for the ranger (haven't gotten to it yet).

No, this isn't a call to nerf striker although they are standing on top of the pile in terms of sheer 1v1 potential at the moment. They have an incredibly versatile tool kit that includes CC, independent healing, massive 1v1 damage output, and mobility that makes them extremely difficult to deal with. The only way I've been able to handle a striker in 1v1 has been through unmitigated CC.

The Lahn has okay CC, no form of preservation worth speaking of, and the damage is severely lacking. However they are one of the more mobile classes and defend themselves from being targetted just through sheer annoyance factor. I believe they need far more damage output to counteract the long cooldowns and allow them to be on par with the other classes.

The Dark Knight is a complete mess. The kreigs animation time is completely unacceptable. The sustain requires the DK to stand still and open to whatever comes their way. The magic based attacks are solid damage and can cause a win from less skilled opponents, but this is the only thing going for them. Strafe mobility is great, but never a reason to click my DK on the character select screen when the node wars start.

The Musa is in a good place. Mobility is excellent, and attacks come fast and intuitive. The damage is high enough to feel respectable. Potion use becomes necessary, but the rest of the tool kit is there. CC through Gale is a nice option as well but the cooldown may need pulled back a little. Musa damage would be a good template to use when reassessing the striker.

As for the original six:
Wizard and witch are very good and inline with where I believe they were intended. Kings of the grind cant be kings of the 1v1, but they still have enough "jack of all trades" potential to give opponents fits, and make them very good in 2v1 or war settings.

Sorceress is excellent and has quite the bag of tricks. Her new damage numbers are solid, and the complexity of her playstyle was adapted well to the console controller I feel. She has good CC, midrange capabilities, solid movement, and decent defenses. DK defense may need brought closer to the sorceress numbers IMO.

Berserker HP is solid, buying them time to make a fight annoying. The grapple is very effective and fits the xbox well. Sustain is interruptable as it should be, and the damage numbers are lacking since the balance changes on 4/3. While the 1v1s last long enough to make them undesirable targets (like the lahn), the damage output doesn't make them "scary" like I feel a Berserker should be. Right now, I get butterflies from Strikers and Musas in the rear view mirror. I've never felt anxious about fighting a berserker and this just seems wrong.

Warriors balance changes were perfect. High defense, decent CC, decent mobility, decent damage and high HPs. These are like Berserkers with more defense thus turning that long fight into more of a "kill him quick as you can" scenerio. If you've ever played summoners war, this is like the old style Camilla. 1v1 requires you to burst them, node wars require that you kill everyone else and then attrition them down. Warrior = attrition. Feels good man.

What are your opinions on the class balancing? Am I completely wrong about your favorite class? Lets discuss instead of turning this into another "nerf striker" thread that doesn't help the developers much at all.

Classes are balanced right now, based off of the live skill sets on PC. I spent some time checking skill by skill on a few classes and they are identical, except for 2 things, awakening, and absolutes. The only thing different is we have the old CC rules, so Zerkers can still use all 3 grabs in a row and not get Grab immune.  All the imbalances you will see get fixed once awakenings and absolutes get in BDX. 

Also please note we have heard this a 1,000 times from the devs at PA. This game is not balanced around grinding or 1 v 1 / small group encounters. They balance things off Seiges, and large scale PvP because that is the end game in their minds of what BD should be. Not 1v1 quibbling over grind spots, or fighting in the battle area with randoms, not your petty litle guild war where you have 5v2. Some classes in a 1v1 will seem not balanced, but put it into context they actually pretty balanced for their roll. Sure they do minor PvE tweaks, but PvP wise some classes are just busted for 1v1s and some just suck. Some classes suck for front line large scale PvP, and some thrive at it. 

The best class is whatever you enjoy playing. Period. The worst class is the one you choose to play cuz some db on the forums said it was op. Period. 

Its not about best or worst class. Its about balancing them to percieved and intended strengths and weaknesses. If the devs want them to be balanced to siege, it does no good to do so prior to siege being a factor on the console. All that does is cause griefing in PvE, or pigeonholing in RBF/Wars/other content.

Balance again when the intended content arrives, but until then dont push existing issues under the rug.

As to "theyre the same as on pc", thats part of the problem. PC is a KB and mouse IO. You cant expect console interface to translate that balance without tweaks being necessary -especially when it comes to movement or targetting intensive skills. Console needs its own balance, or KB/mouse IO.

23 minutes ago, Hedonist_Jester said:

Its not about best or worst class. Its about balancing them to percieved and intended strengths and weaknesses. If the devs want them to be balanced to siege, it does no good to do so prior to siege being a factor on the console. All that does is cause griefing in PvE, or pigeonholing in RBF/Wars/other content.

 

As to "theyre the same as on pc", thats part of the problem. PC is a KB and mouse IO. You cant expect console interface to translate that balance without tweaks being necessary -especially when it comes to movement or targetting intensive skills. Console needs its own balance, or KB/mouse IO.

That's not how this company thinks - PvE carebears is not the market of BD either on PC or XBOX. They want PvP minded players, because this is a PvP game. Plenty of other games that offer FULL PvE support (ESO, WoW, FF14, L2, RS, Vendictus, Blade & soul, Tera). They want a niche market which makes them more appealing. They can't balance pvp for Seige and then expect it to work in small scale pvp, they are doing ok with what they have done over the last 3 years to not completely BONE PvE grinding with PvP changes, by changing how the skills apply damage in PvP. 

Because they are the same on PC means less leg work for them. Striker was NEVER conceived during pre awakening, Lahn was not apart of the original balance. So why rebalance a WHOLE game over less than 3 months of unawakening when all classes actually are pretty balanced once we get the awakening and absolutes that actually balances ALL issues. Would you rather them spend time and effort working on new balance codes to Make classes work temporarily or have them put more resources into getting all 17 classes out and all other BD content already out and already fully balanced. You would have to pick one, the BDX team isn't the same larger team working on PC. 

And this is precisely why they need to think differently. If theyre going to still aim at the late content within first half 2019, theyll have to keep a console playerbase that includes 1v1 pvpers, and small scalers. Since the bigger picture is not yet here, balance needs done multiple times.

Otherwise, you lose console players to the next big title and you become xbox ESO. Since they released those classes before intended content for those classes, you wrote your agenda in stone and not sand.

Cant put it back in the bottle, might as well contain the spill or risk your end game content catering only to PC players who migrated.

41 minutes ago, Hedonist_Jester said:

And this is precisely why they need to think differently. If theyre going to still aim at the late content within first half 2019, theyll have to keep a console playerbase that includes 1v1 pvpers, and small scalers. Since the bigger picture is not yet here, balance needs done multiple times.

Otherwise, you lose console players to the next big title and you become xbox ESO. Since they released those classes before intended content for those classes, you wrote your agenda in stone and not sand.

Cant put it back in the bottle, might as well contain the spill or risk your end game content catering only to PC players who migrated.

You don't buy Mountain Dew expecting it to taste like coca cola. We don't buy an open world pvp game to only PvE in it. The only people the console will lose are the people who didnt want to play an open world MMO thinking they bought another Tera or ESO which had full PvE support. 

I think what you are missing is everything will be fine at the end of June, all the classes we have now will make sense in balance. 

I have taught 3x brand new players who came in knowing NOTHING about BD and now are well on their way to surpassing me in GS and knowledge just because I pointed them in the right direction. I am a 3 year vet, I have been through every pain staking **** update and every amazing QoL update Kakao put at us on BDO, I have been with BDO for all the lows and highs it has had so far. Most of you who knew nothing other than Black Desert was coming to xbox would have thrown this game in the trash if you played the first 3 months of the PCs release here on xbox, and most are spoiled and ungrateful (not directing this at you  just in general) for what you actually got handed to you in release. You will be surprised how many of these "pc" vets will have taught a new generation of players how to be just as competitive as they are. So please don't think when you get your ass handed to you in 4-5 months it was a PC player. 

I still feel like BD is rushing out the content to satisfy pc players. There is no way the majority of new players to this game are ready for more content.(except the low/no lifers who play 24/7). Imo, BD is correct in fixing performance/graphical bugs over class balance. Class balance should not even be discussed until after awakening.

A big problem for ESO was that they tried to balance the game for everyone...pve, battlegrounds, small scale pvp and the hypothetical large scale pvp. This frustrated a lot of long time players.

When is the last time you played ESO? The starting area was still jammed with new players up until 2 months ago. I still have a ton of friends playing it. BD is attempting to appeal to a specific pvp market so if they are half as successful as ESO, they'll be doing good. 

But you can't compare this to ESO even tho by genre they may be similar. In reality they are very different and the majority of people who played ESO for a long time will not be playing this game for as long, simply because it's not the same style game.

Teaching new players is great. Balancing to too many different things is bad. Nobody is disputing these statements. 

But youd have to have absolutely no understanding of groupthink or cause and effect in societal settings to think you can appeal to a completely different demographic without adjusting the original offering.

If you could, wouldnt they be in the original demographic?

If you're releasing on a different medium, arent you hoping to win that new demographic?

Im not saying things need balanced for PvE and small scale pvp alone, nor that they need balanced in a widespread sweep of all content. What Im saying is that to keep that new demographic, you cant shun them during the infancy of their exposure. You do it in waves. Balance now to current content. Balance again for future content. Or have two mediums supporting the same demographic and cost yourselves dearly.

I agree pretty balanced once they bring Awakening and Change Crowd controls it will feel better.

Didn't they mention they would do something to balance for the time being? 

In my opinion original posters opinion is valid...although the three grabs chain on zerker isn't effective or easy as stated. there is a cool down on grabs that u can not chain grab in arena I was standing in front of someone they were not attacking and was only allowed two grabs while the third disengaged and used headbutt instead.it only allows for so many knockdown before immune is how they explained to me..but everything else you've said seems good...although I cannot seem to beat strikers at all...it is a c.c machine and rangers I struggle with shotgun...spam if knocked by a ranger k.o...but just my opinion.